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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 23:33:00 -
[1]
There will come a point if the game is to continue to grow that a couple things have to happen.
1. You have to keep veteran players satisfyed.
2. You have to attract and "KEEP" new players.
You cant let the spread of new to old players get so great that the new players have no hope of competing.
It is very close to that now. A good portion of new players don't want to wait over a year to be competitive in pvp.
At the same time older players don't want to become stagnate and want new things that are worth having not just revised existing content.
The only way anything like this can stay going is if the new content is new directions it must branch out sideways and not in a sraight line up.
New content needs to be added just not at the expense of new players with wont want to get steam rolled with the promise that "someday" they to will be able to steam roll.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 02:24:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Cabadrin
Jaabaa, I agree that CCP needs to keep us vets (I also hate the term) satisfied. I'm kinda upset that you need such insanely long training times to fly t2 ships. You could spend a year training for t2 cruisers, working on core and secondary skills. I'd like to see the higher level skills cap out at, say, a month to complete. I know i'd be ****ed if T3 made me train three 1 1/2 month skills to use. It's kinda insane and it means practically no one but the oldest players will get the new stuff. At the same time is almost instanly outclasses the young players.
The solution for pvp is to work in groups. The lower class ships cost less, so you can lose more of them while killing a t2 ship, and you'll still come out on top economically. For instance, if you lose three kestrels to kill a Crow, you've still come out ahead.
However, I'll not be happy if I have to spend half a year training for T3. It's a lot of time doing nothing but training.
Forgive my rambling, I'm really tired :(
Only problem I see with the constant statements of (use 5 of x and you can kill the t2 y) and thats how you do it as a noob group. See the problem is the vet is 90% of the time in a group as well pretty much negating your group.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 02:44:00 -
[3]
Only things I can add is basically the same things.
New skills need added for vet players.
The new skills should not make current skills better but give new directions for players to go in.
If you simply add even say something like 2% to turret damage per level thats another 10% damage plus another what not and whatever basically putting vet player to far above new player thus further depopulation of .0 or any pvp arena.
I will disagree with jaabaa only in the statement that he makes that new players should not be on equal footing with vets in pvp.
Don't get me wrong not sayin that a one month character should be on equal footing but the average player is not going to play for much more than 5 months without being one at least fairly equal footing and if the vet player simply outclasses him in every facet he'll just leave.
Vets are important to the game same as for any business. But new blood MUST be brought in on a costant basis or the game will die no matter how much vets wish it not to.
Again new skills and content need to branch out not up. The new skills no matter what they are have to be things that arent going to make your ship more umber but are equally important in someother aspect of game play. (don't ask me what if I knew I would be a developer)
T2 wepons even now put many players at enough of a disadvantage to keep them either out or semi out of .0 My corp for one cannot afford to provide t2 much of anything to it's members thus we loose more, members get discouraged in pvp and move back to empire.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 02:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Don't get me wrong here new members of the EVE community, a load of you can take out a VET battleship pod pilot in seconds, in frigates, if you get together, your addition to the EVE universe is always needed, be it in Frigates, Cruisers, Haulers, Interceptors, what ever.
But if you are going to try and take on Vet players expect losses 
Don't really know how to respond I don't think anything I will say will be understood either because of my lack of abilities to expain or lack of wanting to understand.
Fact vets rule .0 just the way it is. Not a complaint not a ***** just the way it is and probably should be. Thing is these same vet players want more people into .0 to increase content of their game play.
New player/players move to .0 and as you stated they should expect losses. They take losses and expect it. BUT if the disparity becomes to large between skill sets and the vet players win EVERY fight or it takes 50 new guys to kill a vet the new guys are simply going to say screw it and move back to empire eventually alot of them will no longer see any challenge in the game and quit.
Again don't look at any of this as a ***** just the way I see it.
I guess this is the simplest way I can put what I feel.
The closer you bring old and new players together in abilities of combat.
1. the more combat your going to have
2. The more people are going to pvp
3. The higher the population .0 will be
If I don't feel I have a chance to win
1. I wont play
2. I will avoid pvp at all cost
3. I won't live in .0
This is not to say someone doesn't expect to loose from time to time but the difference between not feeling a chance at winning and having a chance at looseing. There is quite a large difference even though it may be hard to see for some.
And in all of this we are speaking of even numbers 10 of us on 1 of you is never fun any more than 10 of you on 1 of us. Not saying people want 1 on 1 all the time but there is no real feeling of accomplishment in 10 on 1.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 03:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Originally by: Allen Deckard
I will disagree with jaabaa only in the statement that he makes that new players should not be on equal footing with vets in pvp.
Don't get me wrong not sayin that a one month character should be on equal footing but the average player is not going to play for much more than 5 months without being one at least fairly equal footing and if the vet player simply outclasses him in every facet he'll just leave.
Allen, I think that a group of PvP beginners in Frigates would fry my sorry 4$$ in my fully equipped T2 Tempest.
A lot of the new players THINK they have to join an existing alliance/corp to do something but in fact, all they have to do is get together like the current Vets did ages ago, and claim space.
It's not the T2 or the SPs that win then, it's the numbers and the determination of a unified front of players.
Don't want to turn this into an us them arguement cause that is not my intention.
When vets did things ages ago as you say (kinda funny as the game is only 3 years old) but ages and eons ago when the vets took something over and carved out a spot in .0 they wern't fighting players with 30mil plus skill points with t2 guns t2 ships and every oponent in a bs with 5 other bs's in their hanger.
We live in .0 a good % of the time not to long ago we got in a fight with an experience pvp group we did manage to kill 2 of their bs's we took heavy looses within 5 mins those players were back in the fight with 2 more bs's even though the 2 we killed had to have over 400 mil each in mods alone each. With what we lost we were out of the fight. We can't compete with that. Doesn't really matter how unified we are (guess we are unified enough we have been playing online games together for 15 years now)
Quite frankly within 5 to 6 months of game play people want to be at least fairly equal on the pvp field. This isn't a career it's a game people don't get paid to play so people are not going to wait years to be taking equal losses and wins.
Again this isn't a whine don't look at it that way. I am mearly stating that if the game continues down the road it is currently on without branching out the pvp game will become more and more one sided all fights will be blobs because new players have to blob to stand a chance forcing vets to form blobs forcing new players to make bigger blobs. Blobs are never fun for either side.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 04:07:00 -
[6]
I guess in it all the point I was trying to make was completly lost I appoligize.
Expecting the oposition to gather up in the numbers your suggesting is possible but not probable but that is beside the point.
All I am trying to say is that if the current trend continues the disparity will grow instead of 10 fairly new guys to kill a vet in current time frames in 5 years it will take 100 new guys to take down a vet meaning 10 vets banded together would take a thousand new guys. Again possible? maybe wont argue that.
Basically back to the point t3 and above content needs to go lateraly not vertically for the game to survive.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 14:39:00 -
[7]
Just currious but a question.
If they introduced new skills for something what would you prefer.
1. Something that you train up that add new content? Some sort of new gun new ship new mod ect.
2. Something that makes what you have better.
Personally I prefer new content.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.13 22:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 13/07/2005 21:23:08
IMHO, Tech 3 should be the oposite of Tech II, in tech II we have seen increased fitting requirements for higher damage. With Tech III we should see same damage but with lower fitting requirements. Tech III should be diferent, not better than Tech II. Same to Tech IV, Tech IV would be a mix of both, these would be player costumizable, by certain parameters (example: you have the right to increase/decrease stats in %, a max of 20% for example).
Tech V should be what many think Tech III is going to be. Better than evrything else, the ultimate item. Like that officer cap recharger that gives 37% recharge.
 just a cool idea that would make vets and newbies happy, as it would give vets new stuff to play around without making them necessarely more powerful.
Don't agree with ya but thats ok. Just currious why you think a noob would be happy that every vet is running around in ships that recharge their cap twice as fast as his? Thats just one mod if tech 3 does nothing but add months of skill training to be able to use and further widens the difference between new and old player the game will suffer. Simple fact.
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